1
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,680
There are ethical dilemmas with infiltration.
When you pretend to be someone else.

2
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,239
It’s always a last resort.

3
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,599
But I've tried everything else.

4
00:01:39,519 --> 00:01:43,200
When someone says I am a fascist,
I take that as a compliment.

5
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,439
The new Sweden
is an anti-white movement.

6
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,879
Yes, it's okay to be white,
it's okay to love being white.

7
00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:03,120
They call you intolerant for not wanting these
people anywhere near your neighborhood.

8
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,319
This is complete, you're done.
You got this cute ad-friendly make-up.

9
00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,680
You know what.
I don't think women should vote.

10
00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:19,680
We pretty much want more liberal gun laws.

11
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:25,560
Do you understand? We're covering
the most important information in the...

12
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,759
The question is: How can we save Europe?

13
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,840
As you can see,
the winner of the Prix Europa

14
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,520
for the best European Radio
Investigation of the Year

15
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,840
goes to “The Bombings,
The Security Service and the Nazis”,

16
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,599
submitted by Swedish Radio.
Really well done, brilliant piece of work.

17
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,360
<i>She's very skilled</i>
<i>at open source intelligence.</i>

18
00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:35,879
<i>At finding clues in the traces</i>
<i>people leave on the internet.</i>

19
00:03:36,039 --> 00:03:39,159
<i>You’re a journalist,</i>
<i>an expert in cybersecurity.</i>

20
00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:43,360
<i>Can I call you</i>
<i>"The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" of journalism?</i>

21
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,759
<i>Yeah, I get that a lot.</i>

22
00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:56,719
<i>"The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" is one</i>
<i>of the most sold books of all time.</i>

23
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,080
<i>It’s author Stieg Larsson, had a day job</i>

24
00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:03,840
<i>investigating racist movements </i>
<i>in the magazine he founded - EXPO.</i>

25
00:04:05,199 --> 00:04:07,080
- Hello, I’m My.
- Anna.

26
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,639
- So happy to be here.
- Great to have you.

27
00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:19,319
Okay, tell me about your project.
Please start from the beginning.

28
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,360
I want to write an article
about far-right influencers.

29
00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:28,920
How they use their 
social media accounts to reach out. 

30
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:35,920
So it would be an insight or description
of how far-right influencers work

31
00:04:36,079 --> 00:04:40,560
and perhaps the role
that social media platforms play?

32
00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:42,000
Yes.

33
00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:44,319
I'll use fake accounts.

34
00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:48,800
So that I can hear what people say
when they don't know I'm listening.

35
00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:52,240
That could work really well.

36
00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:55,920
How do you manage
your fake profiles?

37
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,199
I've created a small far-right family.

38
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,079
The family consists of Andreas, the dad.
Johanna, the mom

39
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,000
and their child, Svea.

40
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,160
Finally, there's Ellie
who is Johanna's sister.

41
00:05:16,399 --> 00:05:20,399
And they have all been 
created using my own face.

42
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:28,639
<i>Darling.</i>

43
00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:37,920
My fake profile Andreas, is now following a
far-right influencer called The Golden One.

44
00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:55,000
Stop listening to these fucking extreme
communist cultural Marxist feminists.

45
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,160
Listen to guys like me, that say it's okay.

46
00:05:58,319 --> 00:06:03,319
Play fucking computer games, lift weights,
be a man, that's completely fine.

47
00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:06,000
Be a boy, that is fine.

48
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,160
Don't listen to these voices
that want to turn you into some

49
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,879
fucking feminized beta
that doesn't do anything.

50
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:22,279
This message is to any Western guy. 
We need to look out for each other as a people.

51
00:06:22,439 --> 00:06:24,240
XXO

52
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,160
Who do you think his target group is?

53
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,120
I think he mainly attracts younger men,
maybe men under 24.

54
00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,639
In the comments his users thank him

55
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,879
for helping them to start
exercising and stop eating junk food.

56
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:56,519
Young white men who feel frustrated
they haven’t fulfilled their dreams.

57
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,240
Welcome back to Gains fucking kitchen!

58
00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:07,399
I'm the demi-god of glory! XXO!

59
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,959
The Golden One looks pretty ridiculous.

60
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,480
But he reaches a lot of people

61
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,199
and between his jokes
he says very serious things.

62
00:07:22,519 --> 00:07:26,399
Hitler did not care particularly much

63
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,240
about your eye color or hair color -
he cared about your metaphysical qualities.

64
00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:35,240
I don’t want anyone to think that I love all
whites just because of the way they are born.

65
00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:39,160
There are sub humans
of all races, to quote Joseph Goebbels.

66
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,439
Swedish media has identified
the 21 year old who went on a stabbing spree

67
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,920
at a school in Trollhättan.

68
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,839
He chose dark-skinned people, not white.

69
00:08:12,279 --> 00:08:15,519
After shooting the attacker dead
police confiscated

70
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,800
his computer and hard drives.

71
00:08:17,879 --> 00:08:21,199
They are now looking for
possible far right sympathies.

72
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,720
This is his YouTube account.

73
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,440
Completely untouched.

74
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,320
It's really strange that 
YouTube keeps the account

75
00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:42,039
of a mass murderer.

76
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,720
He'd watched and admired
The Golden One’s videos for a long time.

77
00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:58,240
Greetings true friends.
And welcome back to the Wednesday Q&A.

78
00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,000
Is it wrong to kill another human?

79
00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:05,960
No, obviously not. If you think there’s
something wrong with killing another human

80
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,039
you have been brainwashed and you've
been bereft of your natural testosterone.

81
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:17,320
YouTube has removed some of his videos,
but most of them are still online.

82
00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:25,279
YouTube's Community Guidelines outline
what kind of content is, and isn't allowed.

83
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,559
We know that creators often
don't break rules intentionally

84
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,559
and just want to get
back to making great content.

85
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,080
If you watch my videos
and I'm not ultra-clear with everything,

86
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,360
it's just that I can't
say everything outright.

87
00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:44,240
Because obviously right-wing channels
will continue to take the heat on YouTube.

88
00:09:44,399 --> 00:09:46,679
So keep that in mind.

89
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,960
I often don’t see any logic
in what's allowed to remain

90
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,120
and what's removed from social media.

91
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,720
What can you really say online?

92
00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:39,440
I want to understand
how the big platforms manage hate.

93
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,879
So I contact a
freedom of speech lawyer.

94
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,440
Her name is
Anika Collier Navaroli.

95
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:53,879
Ms. Navaroli!

96
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,519
I'd like to show you a tweet
posted by former President Trump

97
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,679
about my colleagues
and I on July 14, 2019.

98
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,320
It says in part, quote,
"Why don't they go back and help fix

99
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,360
"the totally broken and crime-infested
places from which they came?"

100
00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,840
Ms. Navaroli, as part of your
responsibilities, did you review this tweet?

101
00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:17,320
Yes, it was my team's responsibility
to review these tweets.

102
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,600
I worked on "The Safety Policy Team" in Twitter.

103
00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:23,919
What we did is we actually
wrote the rules.

104
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,639
This is what you can't say. This is what
you can’t do. This is what's prohibited.

105
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,080
We were the highest level of
content moderators within all of Twitter.

106
00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:36,519
And at the time, Twitter's policy
included a specific example

107
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,399
when it came to banned abuse
against immigrants as

108
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,639
They specifically included the phrase
"Go back to your country."

109
00:11:43,799 --> 00:11:45,919
Or "Go back to where you
came from", correct?

110
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,399
Yes, that was specifically included
in the content moderation guidance.

111
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,600
You brought this up to the vice president
of Trust and Safety, Del Harvey.

112
00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:54,159
- Correct?
- I did, yes.

113
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,360
- She overrode your assessment, didn't she?
- Yes, she did.

114
00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:02,519
And something interesting happened
after she overrode your assessment.

115
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,159
A day or two later, Twitter
changed their policies, didn't they?

116
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,759
Yes. "Go back to where you came from" was
removed from the content moderation guidance.

117
00:12:11,919 --> 00:12:14,840
So Twitter changed their own policy

118
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,159
after the President violated it, in order to
potentially accommodate his tweet?

119
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,960
- Yes.
- Thank you.

120
00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:26,919
So not only Trump could say it...

121
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,600
The rest of the world could now tell anybody

122
00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:33,399
who did not look like them
to go back to where they came from.

123
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:39,200
One of my first memories that put
me on this path of trying to understand

124
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,200
speech and race and how
these things are really connected

125
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,120
happened when I was in middle school.

126
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:51,360
My mom and I were walking along the sidewalk
and a man took his pickup truck,

127
00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:54,320
which had a Confederate flag on the back,

128
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,000
veered it off of the road and onto
the sidewalk and tried to mow us down.

129
00:12:59,159 --> 00:13:01,919
At the same time he was calling us
the N-word

130
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,000
and telling us
to go back to where we came from.

131
00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:10,279
So my mom and I ran into a store
for safety and we called the police.

132
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,480
The police came
and when they got there they told us

133
00:13:14,639 --> 00:13:20,399
that there was nothing they could do
because no crime had been committed

134
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:25,799
and that this person had the
First Amendment right to say what they did.

135
00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:30,120
- That’s insane.
- It made no sense to me as a little girl.

136
00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:33,000
It still doesn't make sense to me
as an adult.

137
00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:37,440
You know, this person's right
to say these horrible things

138
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,679
was more important
than my right to safety.

139
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,519
My idea is that The Golden One inspires 
my fake profile Andreas to start working out.

140
00:14:32,519 --> 00:14:38,519
I don’t want to add to all the racism online, 
so my fake accounts never post anything racist.

141
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:44,000
I only hashtag #sweden and #nationalism.

142
00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:55,600
Despite that, it’s scary how quickly

143
00:14:55,679 --> 00:15:01,080
far-right accounts
start to follow and like my posts.

144
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,960
One of my fake profiles
has been invited

145
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,320
to an exclusive Telegram group.

146
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,919
They call themselves Nordic Federation.

147
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,440
What's their ideological orientation?

148
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,600
They're neo-nazis,
National Socialists.

149
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,840
Nordic Federation
is a new far-right extremist group.

150
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,039
They're trying to establish themselves
in Scandinavian countries.

151
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,399
There's a group in Norway,
in Sweden and Denmark.

152
00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:41,360
They want an armed revolt to create
a Nazi Nordic region, for white people only.

153
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,240
Here they suggest how
to best kill black people.

154
00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:04,599
There's so much hate
against LGBTQ people in this feed.

155
00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:11,000
My article was supposed to be about...

156
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,720
It was really about far-right influencers.

157
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,880
But this is more of a secret group
working underground.

158
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,920
<i>White power!</i>
<i>White power! </i>

159
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,240
<i>Let's go!</i>

160
00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:43,440
<i>White power!</i>

161
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,200
I’m not sure why I continue
doing these jobs.

162
00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:11,519
I think I want to understand how
people end up like that. So full of hatred.

163
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,039
I also think it’s important

164
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,200
to do this as a white person.

165
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,000
Because I have other opportunities

166
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,480
than people
who are subjected to racism.

167
00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:01,799
There were a lot of Nazis
and skinheads where I grew up.

168
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,920
<i>Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!</i>

169
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:10,400
<i>Democracy is a plague!</i>

170
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,680
It was scary.
I remember being really afraid at times.

171
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,359
<i>Jewish pigs! Fucking Turks!</i>

172
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,799
I had the feeling
of being different growing up.

173
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,640
My family moved a lot,
so I had difficulty making friends.

174
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,640
I became interested in the internet
very early on.

175
00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:57,640
The internet was a space where
I didn’t have to hide my weirdness.

176
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,200
Instead, I could let it grow.

177
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:04,920
<i>What is The Facebook, exactly?</i>

178
00:20:05,079 --> 00:20:11,680
When social media appeared I thought
it could become a tool for democracy.

179
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:14,319
I was really optimistic.

180
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,000
The site's called YouTube. 
I absolutely love it.

181
00:20:17,079 --> 00:20:21,000
There's lots of sites that allow video
uploads, but this is the most user-friendly.

182
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:35,119
At the same time I’ve seen how racism
and sexism spreads on social media

183
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:38,000
and that far-right extremists exploit it.

184
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:49,440
<i>Nordic Revolution! </i>
<i>Show no mercy! </i>

185
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:55,440
In 2017 Swedish Radio asked me to
investigate the Nordic Resistance Movement.

186
00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:59,880
It's a violent Nazi organization.

187
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,799
I was contacted by the security department
of Swedish Radio.

188
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,680
They said I could no longer live 
at home or use public transport

189
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:25,440
because there were 
concrete plans to kill me.

190
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,200
The police came to my new home,
they gave me a personal alarm

191
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,519
and they put protection on my windows
so no one could throw in a Molotov cocktail.

192
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,559
When I search for my name online,
I get more than 700 comments.

193
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:57,440
"My Vingren is a lying,
crazy, mentally ill feminist."

194
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,559
It says I should be raped.

195
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,279
It says I look like a bag of shit.

196
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,799
We do have freedom of speech. They
can think what they like about my looks.

197
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,119
That's not what's important.

198
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,279
I have greater things to focus on.

199
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,359
- So where do we go from here?
- Well...

200
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:59,480
I'd like to investigate
who is behind the group.

201
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,400
I managed to find the account
that started the group.

202
00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:09,000
I think we can do more research on him.

203
00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:22,799
I've been trying to identify the leader
of Nordic Federation for months.

204
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,799
The group consists of a number
of chat feeds on Telegram.

205
00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:39,480
One account stands out.
He has an emoji as his profile picture

206
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,759
and calls himself Strength38.

207
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:47,160
He's the one who started
all the Telegram channels.

208
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:52,240
He also organizes camping trips
and lots of big parties.

209
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:03,759
<i>They come to my party. They enjoy</i>
<i>themselves and will come the next time.</i>

210
00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:12,599
When I type in the coordinates
that Strength38 shares

211
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:16,200
it takes me to a forest
in southern Norway.

212
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:37,240
Strength38 starts a number 
of accounts in the name of Nordic Federation.

213
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:49,039
He exploits the major platforms
to recruit to the Russian app, Telegram.

214
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,160
Far-right extremists are 
really skilled at exploiting the internet.

215
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,079
They attract young people through
community, humor and racist memes.

216
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:40,640
They use internet language
to reach young men who are lonely.

217
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,559
Young men who don’t feel well

218
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,200
and find a way of belonging online.

219
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:55,079
But that sense of belonging can have
very dangerous consequences.

220
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:27,200
In 2019, a 28-year enters a mosque
in Christchurch, New Zealand.

221
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,599
He's armed with the latest weapon
of the far-right:

222
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:36,079
A camera mounted on his helmet, which
live-streams the terrorist act to Facebook.

223
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:49,000
On his weapon, the terrorist
had written the name of the Swede

224
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,880
who killed three people in Trollhättan.

225
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,759
The Christchurch terror attack inspires

226
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,720
a wave of far-right extremist
live broadcast terror attacks.

227
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,319
In the fall of 2021, a 15-year-old 
enters his school in Eslöv, Sweden.

228
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,440
He live-streams the stabbing of a teacher
who suffers critical injuries.

229
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:36,200
The question is, how lonely are you

230
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,920
when suddenly you're in a context
with many others doing the same thing?

231
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,240
They use the same kind of language.

232
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,559
A language that's very dehumanizing.

233
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:59,839
<i>Rats are cunning, cowardly and cruel</i>

234
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,480
<i>just like the Jews among mankind.</i>

235
00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:10,200
Nordic Federation 
and its leader Strength38

236
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,519
uses the same 
dehumanizing language.

237
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,880
If Andreas had been a
real person and not my fake account

238
00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:43,839
this would have been
a typical radicalization.

239
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:05,160
I created my first fake accounts
on Facebook ten years ago.

240
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,480
I usually start by cultivating
a character, like in a novel.

241
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:16,599
I make up who they are, 
what they do, where they live.

242
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,319
Then I give them interests.

243
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,240
Like hunting, housekeeping,
or sourdough baking.

244
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:37,680
Many of my investigations have started with
information from my digital undercover journalism.

245
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,480
What the hell?

246
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:56,920
He has changed his profile picture.

247
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,599
- It’s him! The Norwegian guy!
- Okay.

248
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:12,400
I think he’s the founder
of the whole thing.

249
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,079
What the hell?

250
00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:23,079
He looks AI generated.
He doesn’t have any wrinkles.

251
00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:27,559
Just like...

252
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Just like the Kardashians.

253
00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:46,640
Has my fake account been recruited
by another fake account?

254
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,119
It, of course,
begins with the Trump presidency.

255
00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:01,359
So much of the world and so many
Americans were governing their lives

256
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:05,039
by "What is this guy gonna tweet today?"

257
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,839
I didn't know it was going to be my job
to have to deal with that.

258
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,440
We also saw a real change in the rhetoric.

259
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,720
We see the direct tie between dehumanization

260
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,079
and language online
and offline violence that starts to happen.

261
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,640
We realized there was still this gap
for this sort of dog whistles.

262
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:29,640
The sort of coded language
like "Locked And Loaded"

263
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:34,880
or "Revolutionary War Part Two",
or "Civil War Part Two".

264
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:37,359
People are going to start
shooting each other.

265
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:40,480
From what I'm seeing,
this is what they're talking about.

266
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:46,039
So we wrote this policy
trying to get this language handled.

267
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,720
I went to our Vice President
along with some teammates and said

268
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,480
we see this happening on the platform,
we think there's going to be violence.

269
00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:00,359
Can we please get this policy approved
and can we take down these tweets?

270
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:06,160
But, Twitter made the decision
that we should not use the policy.

271
00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:08,599
- Oh, wow.
- Yes.

272
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:13,039
And that we could not take down
the tweets that we had gathered.

273
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,440
And I think it was December 19th. That
was the date that Donald Trump tweeted

274
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:24,720
his infamous "Will be wild-tweet"
about January 6th.

275
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,279
Then it became clear
that it was not only going to happen

276
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,880
but it was going to happen
on a specific date.

277
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:40,000
On January 5th we had this team meeting
that was regularly scheduled

278
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,000
and I remember I put it on the agenda again:

279
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,359
Can we please talk about
coded incitement to violence?

280
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:52,480
So I remember saying, I’m really concerned
that there's going to be violence.

281
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,079
Do we need to wait for
someone to be shot tomorrow

282
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,319
before we can do anything?

283
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,279
But our leadership was telling us
there was nothing that we could do.

284
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:14,799
<i>Months after the attack on our capital one </i>
<i>Twitter whistleblower laid out in disturbing detail</i>

285
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:20,839
<i>how for months the company simply ignored</i>
<i>her warnings about Trump's incitement to violence.</i>

286
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:25,480
I'm here because there is
an urgent need for us to understand

287
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,599
the impact that social media companies
are having on our democracy.

288
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:33,240
If we're going to talk about
social media and the government

289
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,000
we need to talk about
Twitter’s failure to act before January 6th.

290
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,079
If we continue to do nothing,
violence is going to happen again.

291
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,559
I think the most poignant memory I have...

292
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:01,680
Is folks within the Capitol whose job it was to
come in and sweep away all of the damage.

293
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:05,039
I remember having this
feeling of camaraderie.

294
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,079
Just like these folks were
sweeping the floors of the Capitol

295
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,920
I had spent my days sweeping
the internet for all of this hate speech.

296
00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:17,840
So I opened up my Google Doc
and I start writing an assessment

297
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,000
that is a recommendation to permanently
suspend the former president Donald Trump

298
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,679
under the glorification of violence policy.

299
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,960
And it was very clear to me
that this was the case of

300
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,559
Twitter versus Donald Trump.
And this was the big one.

301
00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:41,079
And then I got a notification on my phone
that said that the company

302
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,199
had made the decision
to permanently suspend the president.

303
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,800
Today, it’s three weeks
since Russia invaded Ukraine.

304
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,840
In Nordic Federation's threads on Telegram

305
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,480
people switch languages between
Swedish, Norwegian and English.

306
00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:21,000
But also Russian.

307
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:27,239
A Vladimir has
written something in Russian.

308
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,400
Vladimir has posted a bunch of stuff

309
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:36,320
directed at Russian groups
but also written in Russian.

310
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:42,280
@Swedish_Crusader asks:
“Is there anyone here that isn’t Russian?”

311
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:51,360
- Is this Telegram?
- Exactly, this is Telegram.

312
00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:01,480
Another thing that stands out
is that they have a dedicated channel

313
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:07,320
devoted to cyberattacks. To
influence elections in the Nordics countries.

314
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,599
They also target individual LGBTI people.

315
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,559
And encourage members
to attack them digitally.

316
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:32,039
They also offer jobs. "Work at home
from your own computer, using social media".

317
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,440
This feels like a Russian influence operation.

318
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,440
This is a very serious threat.

319
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,000
<i>Look at all the refugees!</i>

320
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,239
<i>Damn! That's a lot of people! </i>

321
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:28,559
In October 2021, Strength38 invites the
entire Nordic Federation to a birthday party.

322
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,960
There's a name on the invitation.

323
00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:36,199
He calls himself “Vincent”.

324
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,480
And at the bottom, there’s an address.

325
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,280
Wow. Google hasn't blurred
the number plate of the car.

326
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,880
Through the Norwegian car register, I get
the name of the person who owns the car.

327
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,440
The owner is a high-ranking
executive in the defense industry.

328
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,639
It turns out that the owner
lives abroad and sublets the house.

329
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:31,119
He has a tattoo on his neck.

330
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,800
So who are you?

331
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,480
My fake account Johanna is invited

332
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:50,159
to Nordic Federation's
closed group on Facebook.

333
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,480
That's where I find Vincent's surname.

334
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,559
He's in Brazil here.

335
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,119
He seems to be a cat person.

336
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,760
He writes that his interests are AI

337
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,320
and facial recognition software.

338
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,480
The London School of Economics
and Political Science.

339
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:50,639
The British company registry
says he's a German citizen.

340
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,400
I find an interview with Vincent
in a Norwegian newspaper

341
00:39:56,559 --> 00:39:59,360
where he says he's American.

342
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,880
When I search for him in American databases

343
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,119
I learn that his mother is 
from Brazil and his dad is German.

344
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:20,960
Vincent grows up in Palo Alto,
California. In the heart of Silicon Valley.

345
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,719
He's moved around.

346
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:31,280
To understand who Vincent is,
I build a timeline of his life.

347
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,360
It's a way for me to 
sort through all the data.

348
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,880
I find a post in a 
Norwegian Facebook group.

349
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:53,199
Someone posts an image of
Vincent with a chainsaw in the woods.

350
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,320
Let me call the person
who posted the picture.

351
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:13,280
Right away.

352
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,440
<i>This is Geir speaking.</i>

353
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:32,440
Hello, my name is My Vingren and I'm
a journalist with the magazine EXPO.

354
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:39,599
I’m contacting you because
you know a person called Vincent.

355
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,800
<i>He was my neighbor.</i>
<i>He lived where I live.</i>

356
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,800
Right, I see...

357
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,159
When did he move there?

358
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,000
<i>About two years ago.</i>

359
00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:56,320
And he doesn’t live there anymore?

360
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,280
<i>No, he was picked up by the police.</i>

361
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:03,000
<i>I have lots of photos </i>
<i>and videos of him.</i>

362
00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:16,199
<i>Tell me, has that idiot moved to Sweden?</i>

363
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,000
<i>I want to meet him </i>
<i>again and beat him up.</i>

364
00:42:23,199 --> 00:42:27,400
<i>He's a bad man.</i>

365
00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:45,800
It turns out that Vincent and his neighbor
are renting different parts of the same house.

366
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,800
At first, we wondered
what he was doing here.

367
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,280
He's not going to school.
He's not working.

368
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:08,639
He has no connection to Kongsberg,
doesn't do anything here.

369
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,639
He wouldn't talk to anyone because
they weren't intellectual enough.

370
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:20,960
But he wanted to live in Kongsberg,
he didn’t want to return to the US.

371
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,519
It didn’t make sense to us.
We never found out why he was here.

372
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:30,280
Except that we found out
he was a far-right extremist.

373
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,320
One evening he came
to my door all upset.

374
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,280
He asked me if there was 
anywhere we could go shoot.

375
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,760
If I had any firearms,
or if we could borrow guns from someone.

376
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,400
If there were shooting ranges,
shooting clubs, and things like that.

377
00:43:56,559 --> 00:43:59,760
Then he started talking
far-right extremist stuff

378
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,639
about Jews and immigrants...

379
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,599
Saying “The world is being ruined,
we must take it back”.

380
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,800
Typical extremist stuff.

381
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,559
So I kicked him out.

382
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,960
What do you think
Vincent's role was?

383
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:21,800
Do you think he is dangerous?

384
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,480
He's good at manipulating people.

385
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:33,559
And, of course, with his ideology,
if he meets young people

386
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,960
who are bullied at school
or maybe don't have a lot of friends

387
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,400
and are just looking
for a community to belong to.

388
00:44:43,559 --> 00:44:46,760
Of course, he could be 
dangerous for young people.

389
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:51,079
How do you know he went to Russia?

390
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,039
We were friends on 
Instagram. He posted pictures from Moscow.

391
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:05,960
He went away for a longer period.

392
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:10,880
And my neighbor told me
that his cat was left behind.

393
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:14,159
So I texted Vincent that 
if you don't answer my messages

394
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:16,679
I will enter your flat 
and take care of your cat.

395
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,920
There was no food, no water.

396
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:23,280
There was cat shit everywhere.

397
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:32,199
There was a lot of weird stuff there.

398
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,840
There were shooting targets
with people on them.

399
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,719
It was really messy and bad.

400
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:46,280
We went upstairs and got the cat.

401
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,039
Vincent returned and knocked on 
my door saying he wanted his cat.

402
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:58,000
I told him he can't have any animals.

403
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:01,880
He was angry and 
shouted a bit, then he left.

404
00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:04,480
And when I went to work the next morning

405
00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:08,800
I saw on my surveillance camera
that he broke into my flat and took the cat.

406
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:21,599
When the police came,
do you know how long he was away?

407
00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:26,559
He was gone for a few hours.

408
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:30,199
The Security Service wanted to talk to him.

409
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:35,559
And suddenly, he was gone.

410
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,559
He took two suitcases and left.

411
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,960
That time you filmed inside the flat,
tell me what it looked like?

412
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:53,719
We were sitting out here
by the barbeque.

413
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,880
Something smelled really foul.
I was trying to figure it out.

414
00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:01,800
What smelled so bad?
The stench lasted for days.

415
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,599
So I had to go into his flat.

416
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:20,840
He had cut off the electricity.

417
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,599
And left the fridge 
and freezer full of food.

418
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,519
It was full of stinking meat. It was awful.

419
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:35,440
It turned out he'd hidden
pieces of chicken, raw filets

420
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:39,639
around the house
which were rotting and stank.

421
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,519
He'd cut holes in the beds and put
raw eggs inside the mattresses.

422
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:49,239
To maximize the stench.
It was totally awful. Awful...

423
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:02,639
I have sources who say Vincent sought
out people who work with defense secrets.

424
00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:08,719
That he tries to get close to private
companies working in the arms industry.

425
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:17,519
He managed to get close to at least two
senior executives of this company in Norway.

426
00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:20,480
One of which was his landlord.

427
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:39,239
Vincent deletes his
Telegram account. I lose track of him.

428
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:48,800
After that, Nordic Federation shuts down.

429
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:05,440
In early 2022, Vincent reviews
a sushi restaurant in St Petersburg.

430
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,800
Most people don't know that Google shares
the data behind anonymous Google reviews.

431
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,719
So Vincent is walking around the city where
the world's most famous troll factory is situated.

432
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,840
That's pretty wild.

433
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,039
I’m in touch with a Russian investigative
journalist called Andrei Soshnikov.

434
00:49:46,199 --> 00:49:48,639
He's currently living in exile.

435
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,039
- Hi, My.
- Hi!

436
00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:59,800
Do you remember our mutual source
that wants to remain anonymous?

437
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,480
She has access to bank data
inside Russia.

438
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:08,920
So, she was able to gather some information
about Vincent.

439
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,760
If you look into his bank transactions

440
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,280
most of the money he received on his account

441
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,519
were via cash in drops
via bank machines somewhere.

442
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:30,199
And via these transactions
he was able to buy airport tickets.

443
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,480
He traveled several times
from Moscow to Saint Petersburg

444
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:37,159
from Saint Petersburg to Moscow.

445
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:44,039
So, in May he spent a week
in Minsk, Belarus.

446
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:47,920
And he wasn't spending
a lot of money there.

447
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:52,239
It means that
probably someone invited him.

448
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,800
What could that...?
Why would you go there?

449
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,480
- I don't know.
- So Vincent is an American citizen.

450
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:05,400
Is it safe for him to travel
around Russia?

451
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:12,480
Not in 2022. When the war in Europe started

452
00:51:12,639 --> 00:51:16,599
both Russia and Belarus have a history

453
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:22,719
of imprisonment of American citizens
on dubious accusations.

454
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,960
It's a good indication
that he feels safe both inside Russia

455
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:33,000
and inside countries
that allies with Russia, right?

456
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:36,000
Yeah, definitely.

457
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:48,400
I keep wondering if Vincent
is an ideologically convinced Nazi

458
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:52,360
or if he's getting paid by someone,
or is being used by someone.

459
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,719
I continue to monitor Vincent's social media
and find a new Instagram account.

460
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,559
He's been tagged in a film
by a hairdresser in Brazil.

461
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,480
He's moved there
with his girlfriend.

462
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:45,760
On TikTok, Vincent's 
girlfriend is tagged in a post.

463
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,159
I go to her account
and go through who she follows.

464
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,880
One account stands out.
It's a TikTok account called

465
00:52:57,039 --> 00:52:59,519
"BRICS - the end of NATO."

466
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:05,880
BRICS is a collaboration between Russia,
China, India, Brazil and South Africa.

467
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,119
This TikTok account is 
full of conspiracy theories

468
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,599
disinformation,
and Putin-friendly propaganda.

469
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,440
My god, this is a recruitment
video for the Wagner Group!

470
00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:58,280
It's a private army
waging Putin's war in Ukraine.

471
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:03,039
They've been accused of 
terrorist acts in both Ukraine and Syria.

472
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:14,360
I really want to find out
who owns this account.

473
00:54:21,159 --> 00:54:25,920
I do a kind of advanced search
where I get cached results

474
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:29,639
that have been removed
but still remain on Google.

475
00:54:30,519 --> 00:54:35,159
That way I can see 
the first profile picture of the account.

476
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,559
If you look at the ear, it has a white
spot here. And the same there.

477
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,199
It's the same cat from his Instagram

478
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,400
and from Vincent’s
neighbor's photos.

479
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:17,719
Damn. It's... 

480
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,320
It's Vincent's cat.

481
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:26,360
This means that Vincent
is recruiting for the Wagner Group.

482
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,119
So Vincent founded a Nazi organization
that looked like an influence operation.

483
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,800
He travels in Russia and Belarus
and recruits for the Wagner Group.

484
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:44,159
Do you think he works for Russia?

485
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,920
Well, many useful
idiots support Russia

486
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:53,119
because they have this 
twisted image of the country

487
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,480
as a safe haven for white people.

488
00:55:56,639 --> 00:55:59,440
So if you connect all these dots...

489
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:03,000
To me it sounds like
Vincent is a Russian proxy.

490
00:56:03,159 --> 00:56:06,679
For people like Vincent,
big social media platforms

491
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,360
are easy to abuse
for influence operations.

492
00:56:10,519 --> 00:56:12,079
Yeah.

493
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:29,360
I don’t know if Vincent
supports Russia for ideological reasons

494
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:32,880
or if it's because he works for Russia.

495
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:39,400
But I know that Russia uses
social media the same way Vincent does

496
00:56:39,559 --> 00:56:42,599
to influence Western democracies.

497
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:54,239
If this is an influence operation,
Vincent has succeeded.

498
00:56:54,400 --> 00:57:00,199
When Nordic Federation dies,
three new violent Nazi groups are created.

499
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,239
Groups who spread
Nazism, violence and hatred.

500
00:57:39,719 --> 00:57:42,480
- Hi, welcome!
- Hi! Thank you

501
00:57:42,639 --> 00:57:44,519
- How are you?
- Good to see you.

502
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:47,199
- You, too.
- Thank you.

503
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,119
What happened after you left Twitter?

504
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:59,000
So when I left Twitter,
I went and I applied for an open job

505
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,000
at Twitch on their policy team.

506
00:58:02,159 --> 00:58:05,480
Twitch is a website where
people can broacast themselves

507
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:09,159
or a video game they can play 
for people to see all over the world.

508
00:58:09,239 --> 00:58:12,079
It's just like a YouTube video,
except it's live.

509
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,719
One of the things I didn't 
realize before joining Twitch

510
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,559
was that I was going to be
the only black person on the policy team.

511
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,840
And what I saw again was this mixture

512
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,760
and this combination of misinformation

513
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,599
and hate speech.

514
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:36,679
Those messages in the chat said the N-word.
I wasn't talking about anything political.

515
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:42,079
I wasn't saying anything about being black,
being proud of being black...

516
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:43,840
I was just playing a game.

517
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,320
I was certain that violence was
going to happen on Twitch's platform.

518
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,199
And so I went to the leadership
of our team and I specifically said

519
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,239
I think we need to
start thinking about how

520
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,199
these conversations on the service
can lead to political violence.

521
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,599
And I was told that

522
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,079
I had a problem hypothesizing issues.

523
00:59:07,639 --> 00:59:10,800
Anticipating problems was my job!

524
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:16,159
If we don't make an intervention,
this is what I see is going to happen.

525
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,199
<i>Our coverage of the breaking news</i>
<i>out of Buffalo New York continues this hour.</i>

526
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,840
<i>Police say most of the victims were</i>
<i>African-American and the gunman is white.</i>

527
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,840
<i>He was livestreaming the shooting</i>
<i>on a social media platform as it occurred.</i>

528
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,079
I felt sick.

529
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,400
I felt shocked...

530
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,639
And I knew that 
it could have been prevented.

531
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,320
I could no longer sit inside
of technology companies

532
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,960
and beg people in charge

533
01:00:12,119 --> 01:00:16,079
to listen to me when I knew
that people's lives were at stake.

534
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,280
How do you see
the future of social media?

535
01:00:24,239 --> 01:00:26,119
It’s pretty scary.

536
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,360
You've just done something that
very few YouTube creators accomplish.

537
01:00:38,519 --> 01:00:42,519
You've had an astonishing
100,000 people subscribe to your channel.

538
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:46,639
Each and every person has
been touched by what you created.

539
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,639
A million subscribers may
seem a long way off right now

540
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,719
but you're closer than you think,
and we're rooting for you.

541
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,440
Congratulations! Yours sincerely,
Susan Wojcicki, CEO YouTube.

542
01:00:58,599 --> 01:01:00,119
Behold!

543
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,760
The YouTube Silver Play Button.

544
01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:20,760
It's almost impossible to talk to
the big social media companies.

545
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:25,760
But finally I get an interview with an
executive at Google, which also owns YouTube.

546
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,599
So I mainly look
at far-right extremists

547
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,840
and how they use social media to reach out.

548
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,960
There's quite a lot of research 
showing that they might not

549
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:43,079
have had the same reach and had so
many views if it weren't because

550
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:48,920
they could establish themselves
on platforms like YouTube.

551
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:53,960
When you enable people to make their
voice heard you will hear voices

552
01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:59,440
that we don't think are nice,
that say totally illegal things.

553
01:01:59,599 --> 01:02:02,320
And anything in between.

554
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,519
You have a series of awards
that you can apply for

555
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:10,880
if you've reached
a certain number of followers.

556
01:02:11,039 --> 01:02:14,679
Like a big button
when you reach 100,000 followers.

557
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,000
Tell me about that process.

558
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:20,719
In our work with those 
channels and those creators

559
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:26,719
it's a collaboration
that is even more scrutinized.

560
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:32,159
It’s not like anyone
can receive this award.

561
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,280
I suppose you still 
make money from these users?

562
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:41,559
It’s very important to clarify that
we don’t make money from extreme content.

563
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:46,119
It is very clear to us that it's bad
for users, it's bad for the platform

564
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:51,039
and advertisers don’t want to be
associated with that type of content.

565
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,599
But how is it possible
not to make money from it?

566
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,880
The major Swedish
far-right influencers

567
01:02:58,039 --> 01:03:01,880
collectively have over 45 million views.

568
01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:05,960
The way we don't make money
is this - an advertiser

569
01:03:06,119 --> 01:03:10,360
a serious company, does not want to
be associated with this type of material.

570
01:03:10,519 --> 01:03:17,119
We get a lot of negative reactions.
So there are only bad effects for us.

571
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,400
We don’t make any money from it.
Generally speaking.

572
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,920
What role do you think YouTube
has played for far-right extremists?

573
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,159
That’s a very difficult question
to answer because I...

574
01:03:39,199 --> 01:03:43,239
No, I don’t know all the details.

575
01:03:59,079 --> 01:04:03,519
Can it be true that
the platforms don’t profit from hate?

576
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:06,719
I’ve found an organization
that researches this very question.

577
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:10,760
<i>Joining me now to discuss is</i>
<i>Imran Ahmed, the founder and CEO</i>

578
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,719
<i>of the online hate watchdog </i>
<i>Center for Countering Digital Hate.</i>

579
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,880
- Hi, nice to meet you!
- Good to meet you, too.

580
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,039
I spoke to the Google
Head of Policy in Sweden.

581
01:04:24,199 --> 01:04:29,760
I talked to her about hate
and about profit and hate.

582
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:34,119
She told me that Google
didn't profit from hate.

583
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,920
I mean Google profits from hate
in so many different ways.

584
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:43,840
First of all, YouTube. YouTube
is very poor at enforcing its rules on hate.

585
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,239
Right now you could go on there and you can
find misogynist, homophobic, transphobic,

586
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,440
anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim,
anti-black hate like that.

587
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:54,960
That content has ads on it
and they're making money from those ads.

588
01:04:55,119 --> 01:05:00,320
That's one way. The second way is
they're literally taking advertising money

589
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,960
for search ads from
people spreading racial hatred.

590
01:05:04,119 --> 01:05:09,199
So, as an example, last year
we discovered that Google Search

591
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:15,000
was selling the search term,
"George Floyd, cause of death"

592
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:18,440
to a far-right American website

593
01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:21,679
that was using it to direct people to a page

594
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,599
that said he died of a fentanyl overdose,

595
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:28,719
not by being murdered by a police officer
who choked him to death.

596
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:33,519
If you think about other platforms
like Facebook and Twitter

597
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:38,239
what kind of role does hate
have on those platforms?

598
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:42,280
Well... I mean,
you know, hate is like...

599
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,519
When we see it, we react.
The problem is that hate is profitable

600
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:52,639
because for the platforms,
hate drives engagement.

601
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,199
It drives attention.
And they are not in the business of speech.

602
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,920
They're in the business
of advertising space.

603
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,280
There's this idea that far-right
extremists are good at social media.

604
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:28,159
But it seems like it's social media
that's good at far-right extremism.

605
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,519
<i>The world's richest man Elon Musk</i>

606
01:06:35,679 --> 01:06:39,639
<i>acquires the social media</i>
<i>platform Twitter and renames it X.</i>

607
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,320
If you are one of the millions of Americans
who uses Twitter you've probably noticed

608
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,800
how it's descended all the way back
into a site that fuels misogyny

609
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,639
anti-Semitism, racism,
and anti-LGBTQ hate.

610
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,840
...where it's cool to shout the N-word
and other disgusting stuff in public.

611
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,960
Sadly under Musk's leadership,
Twitter has been eviscerated.

612
01:07:00,119 --> 01:07:03,119
He has fired 80% of the staff

613
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,079
and left fewer than 20 full time employees
tasked with overseeing content moderation.

614
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,840
<i>Social media company X and Elon Musk</i>

615
01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:32,480
<i>sues a non-profit research group,</i>
<i>claiming they have scared away advertisers.</i>

616
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,519
- It's been an interesting couple of weeks.

617
01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:44,679
I heard a bit in the media, but I'd love
you to tell me more of what's happening.

618
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,320
We've been looking at Twitter
since Elon Musk took over.

619
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,880
We produced some
really important research

620
01:07:52,039 --> 01:07:55,800
showing that the amount of hate speech
had risen quite drastically.

621
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:02,519
Elon Musk, rather than fixing the problem
with his platform, he is suing us!

622
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:09,519
As a result of our research, they lost
tens of millions of dollars of advertising.

623
01:08:09,679 --> 01:08:14,760
And that's because most advertisers
don't want their ad appearing next to

624
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:20,600
a Nazi doing a Hitler salute
in front of the Brandenburg Gate.

625
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,720
I was really upset
that Musk called you a rat.

626
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:34,239
He used that word because it's dehumanizing.
It's a word he took from white supremacists.

627
01:08:37,239 --> 01:08:40,680
I think he's someone who's spent
too much time on his own platform.

628
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:43,479
Because he's been radicalized by Twitter.

629
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,840
Which is ironic now that he
wants to radicalize everyone else too.

630
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:56,680
<i>We got to take these opportunities we've been</i>
<i>given by Elon Musk and these other things.</i>

631
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:02,159
I'm about one mission and that's about
removing this Jewish elite from power.

632
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:36,079
Really, if you have to say,
"When does free speech matter?"

633
01:09:36,239 --> 01:09:39,439
Free speech matters and is only relevant

634
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:45,399
if people are allowed to say things you
don't like. Otherwise it's not free speech.

635
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:51,520
If someone says
something potentially offensive...

636
01:09:52,199 --> 01:09:58,319
That's actually okay. We're not going
to promote those offensive tweets.

637
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,359
Yes you can say offensive things, but then
your content is going to get downrated.

638
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:08,279
So, if you're a jerk, your reach will drop.

639
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:13,039
So, yeah...
I think that's the right thing.

640
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:20,039
In the US you've got the First Amendment,
the freedom of speech amendment.

641
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:25,359
Yeah, Americans have a very unique

642
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:32,079
idea that hate speech has to be
allowed within the United States.

643
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:39,000
And that we must do things like
defend the rights of Nazis to speak.

644
01:10:39,239 --> 01:10:44,640
Because the argument is, if we don't
there comes this slippery slope

645
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:49,279
that all of a sudden we'll descend
into some sort of authoritarianism.

646
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,199
This theory of free speech absolutism...

647
01:11:01,359 --> 01:11:04,800
We have seen that
it’s never worked in America.

648
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,399
We have lived in a place
where black and brown people

649
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,039
who have always lived
as second class citizens.

650
01:11:14,079 --> 01:11:19,199
If we would understand
that speech that incites hatred

651
01:11:19,359 --> 01:11:23,640
Ieads to things like 
dehumanization, hate crimes.

652
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:28,720
I think that this country would be
in a uniquely different position.

653
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,119
And yet when it came time
for social media to be created

654
01:11:40,279 --> 01:11:43,960
we did not start from
a place of saying

655
01:11:44,119 --> 01:11:48,840
you cannot dehumanize people
based on race, ethnicity or national origin.

656
01:11:51,039 --> 01:11:56,279
I think one of the most dangerous
things that's happened in my lifetime

657
01:11:56,439 --> 01:12:01,159
is social media companies
taking this American idea

658
01:12:01,319 --> 01:12:05,479
of free speech absolutism
and exporting it to the rest of the world.

659
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:11,520
Where that exact same marginalization of
"the other" has happened everywhere else.

660
01:12:13,159 --> 01:12:16,119
<i>As-salamu alaykum </i>
<i>and shalom my friends...</i>

661
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:18,840
<i>..a political program against </i>
<i>migration and islamification... </i>

662
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,880
<i>...Jihad has no borders!</i>

663
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,359
Social media knows that hate is profitable.

664
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,479
We need to sever that link
between hate and profit.

665
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:55,680
So if technology companies use hate
to sell ads, who else profits from the hate?

666
01:12:57,079 --> 01:13:00,640
Is it the influencers
who get likes and followers?

667
01:13:01,039 --> 01:13:04,680
Fucking glorious T-shirt right here.
Link in the description.

668
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:11,000
Is it the young men who
find community in racist forums?

669
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:20,279
Or totalitarian states that destabilize
democracies through social media?

670
01:13:27,279 --> 01:13:32,359
Or is it populist parties
who use hate to win votes?

671
01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:03,439
A new search engine has been released. It lets
me search for people using facial recognition.

672
01:14:20,279 --> 01:14:22,239
Oh, my god!

673
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:47,640
I don’t get it.

674
01:14:50,119 --> 01:14:54,039
How can a person who
spreads so much anti-LGBTQ hate

675
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:57,720
also post a film
of himself on a gay porn site?

676
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,159
Would an ideological Nazi
really participate in a film like this?

677
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:14,319
Maybe he isn’t a Nazi.
Maybe he works for Russia.

678
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:30,399
Wow!

679
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:32,399
What a pleasure to meet you.

680
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,399
- As a journalist, you've earned all my respect.
- Thank you.

681
01:15:37,039 --> 01:15:41,760
I've found Vincent
in a lot of US court cases.

682
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,640
So I contact an American journalist.

683
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:55,760
- How long have you been on this project?
- For about three years, I think.

684
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,119
Yeah, I found Nordic Federation...

685
01:16:01,119 --> 01:16:05,840
two years ago. I'm really curious
about Vincent's background in the US.

686
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:11,680
My colleague Angelika and I
interviewed four...

687
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:17,720
Or came into contact with four different
women who had relationships with him.

688
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:24,079
And at least five incidents
of domestic violence.

689
01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:29,439
In March 2011, "blank" stated
that he threatened to kill her by saying

690
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:34,560
"I will put a 9mm to your head
and I hope you sleep well tonight." Unquote.

691
01:16:37,279 --> 01:16:40,359
Something interesting about the women

692
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,560
that are in the different 
domestic violence things.

693
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,680
All of them were black.

694
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:55,920
- That's very specific.
- There's also cases involving child custody.

695
01:16:56,079 --> 01:17:00,479
- And child support.
- So he's been married and he has kids?

696
01:17:01,399 --> 01:17:06,439
- Kids who are mixed race. You know...
- Yeah.

697
01:17:10,039 --> 01:17:11,800
He was a DJ.

698
01:17:18,119 --> 01:17:24,039
And the music apparently 
he was into was Caribbean music.

699
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:45,279
Vincent is a person who at different times
in his life moves between the gay world

700
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,239
black girlfriends,
but also Nazi organisations.

701
01:17:49,399 --> 01:17:53,680
The more I learn about Vincent, the clearer
the picture of a fragmented person

702
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,479
with a strong need for affirmation.

703
01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:02,000
A person constantly in search of
an identity and belonging.

704
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:07,600
It makes him the perfect prey for influence
operations in a larger political game.

705
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,600
Here it is.

706
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:19,119
The cover came out great! 
Especially with the back cover.

707
01:18:19,279 --> 01:18:20,880
It really did!

708
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,479
This is the longest article I've worked on.

709
01:18:41,159 --> 01:18:43,960
I think it ended up being 14 pages.

710
01:18:44,119 --> 01:18:47,239
It's the longest article I've written too.

711
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:54,000
<i>Nazi Careerist</i>
<i>or Russian Agent?</i>

712
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,279
I’m a bit nervous about the reception.

713
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:02,720
- I'm also a bit nervous.
- I get that.

714
01:19:22,039 --> 01:19:25,279
Someone else has written:

715
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:31,840
"Feminazis like her like it rough and long.
And they want you to cum on their face.”

716
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,680
I deserve to lose my children, my career

717
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,960
my freedom, and my reputation

718
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,319
And then there are some
comments about...

719
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,800
Well... my family.

720
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:02,520
It makes me a bit nervous.

721
01:20:07,079 --> 01:20:11,000
I think the moment when

722
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:15,960
the decision came down
to permanently suspend Donald Trump.

723
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:20,439
This was the biggest case
of my life that I was arguing

724
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:26,239
and it was the most intense
and I had won the argument.

725
01:20:26,399 --> 01:20:33,399
But then I realized almost immediately
that I was the black queer woman

726
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,600
who was behind Donald Trump
getting kicked off of Twitter.

727
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,880
And that that was
a very dangerous place to be in.

728
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:47,199
Folks were calling for me to be hung
and arrested just because of who I am.

729
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,880
- I have the same background.
- Tell me about it.

730
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:54,560
As a journalist, I've been looking at
and investigating

731
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,800
neo-Nazis for ten years.

732
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,279
I had this meeting
with security companies and they said

733
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:07,640
"You shouldn't go out! You can't stay inside.
You can't be here, you can't do that..."

734
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,640
- It scared the shit out of me.
- Did they tell you not to trust anybody new?

735
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:13,520
Yeah. Yeah.

736
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:19,199
And I’ve also had neo-Nazis at my home,
a few times before I moved

737
01:21:19,359 --> 01:21:22,479
and got a protected identity.

738
01:21:23,359 --> 01:21:26,560
- How do you keep going?
- I don't know.

739
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:29,399
It's gotten really hard
after I had a kid.

740
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:35,079
I'm very scared that it's going to
affect my kid especially.

741
01:21:36,039 --> 01:21:39,319
- Have you thought about quitting?
- Yeah.

742
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:44,119
- Me too. All the time.
- Yeah, me too.

743
01:21:45,279 --> 01:21:46,960
- Yeah.
- Yeah.

744
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,640
I became a journalist
because I want to understand.

745
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:18,319
When I examine how hate works, it
becomes a way for me to deal with my own fears.

746
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:21,439
The fear of where the world is going.

747
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:28,760
The deeper I dig,
the stronger my armor gets.

